Talk:Armando-Owen Bailey
Yay!!! Michael Hogan! Hooray! Now there's a voice actor I heartily approve of. Having him in the game just may be enough to overcome my disappointment at learning that Martin Sheen is voicing the Illusive Man. SpartHawg948 11:39, December 11, 2009 (UTC) :Just what I thought. Hogan rocks! He was my favorite character through Battlestar Galactica! Can't wait! :P Effectofthemassvariety 04:21, December 13, 2009 (UTC) ::Indeed! Colonel Tigh was pretty f-ing awesome. SpartHawg948 04:37, December 13, 2009 (UTC) :I agree Martin Sheen is older than I envisioned the Illusive Man, but I think his performance as Jed Bartlet proves he has the necessary charisma to pull it off. Did you have someone in mind as a potential Illusive Man? --Tullis 12:43, December 14, 2009 (UTC) ::Like I suggested over on Talk:Illusive Man, I think William B. Davis, Robert Davi or Callum Keith Rennie would have been great choices to voice Illusive Man. I also threw out a couple other names (James Callis and Edward James Olmos) but basically, Davis, Davi or Rennie would've topped my list. It's not really a charisma thing for me, just that I don't think Sheen sounds right to be voicing the Illusive Man. As talented an actor as he may be, it has been demonstrated that there are some roles that he just can't really do that well (does anybody else remember him as Robert E. Lee?). In addition to charisma, I think you need someone who has a voice that can be both dark and also, as needs be, soothing, that has an air of underlying menace about them, that kind of says 'this is someone you don't want to anger', and I'm not convinced Sheen can pull that off, while the actors I named have demonstrated they can. SpartHawg948 21:05, December 14, 2009 (UTC) ::I know this is old but paste http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4_iMsxjq0Y on youtube the guy playing death has the accent and tone that would of being good on the illusive man its menacing but not overtly so and has the abiliy for humour and sounds intellignent and commanding, however i think his appearance would not match the voice would though. BN 15:22, May 28, 2010 (UTC) :: :: ::I think that this character could be a reference to Detective Elijah Baley from the Spacer series of Asimov, what do you guys think? :::I think more info is needed as to why there is a possible reference. What about them is similar? SpartHawg948 01:30, August 3, 2010 (UTC) :::Both of them are part of the civil protection programs of their respective cities (or stations), also this cities are heavely populated, both of them tend to be similar in their "philosophy" of their works (i dont know how to better say that, my english is not that good), of course there are no robots living on the citadel (although there are problems with robots in both cases, the spacers and their robot based economy in Asimov and the Geth and the Reapers in ME) and thats all i can think now. ::::So... both cops, both in populous areas, both apparently similar philosophies. Well, the first two in no way suggest a reference. They can be written off as coincidence. More so when you figure that, while both police officers, one is a 'plainclothes' detective, and the other is a Captain. As for 'philosophy', I haven't been able to learn too much about Elijah Bailey, but what I have learned doesn't seem to suggest a link. You'd need to be more specific. So, long and short, unless there are more specific similarities than same last name (Bailey, btw, being a pretty common last name), both being cops, and both working in populous areas, I'd say no. No indication of an intentional reference. SpartHawg948 01:48, August 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::Oh, well i suposse you´re right (especially in the name, i didnt know that Baley was a common name in the english language), ill do a little research if i can fin some connection between them :::::Yeah, Bailey is a pretty common name. On the list of most common last names, it's #60 in America (with nearly 300,000 Baileys according to the last census), and #65 in the UK. To put it another way, (just ran these #s), there are at least 46 countries in the world where the total population is less than the number of people with the last name Bailey in the United States. SpartHawg948 02:02, August 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::Wow well then its just a coincidence of names i think Name So Shadow Broker says his name is Armando, where'd Owen come from?JakePT 18:38, September 7, 2010 (UTC) :According to the edit summary when it was added, it came from an Emily Wong news report which only occurs if Joram Talid was rescued on Thane's loyalty mission. SpartHawg948 18:41, September 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Ugh, I'm sure keeping track of this stuff is hard for the writers, but surely not this hard.JakePT 18:47, September 7, 2010 (UTC) :::Well, who says it's a mistake of any kind? It could be as simple as Armando being Bailey's real name or first name, and Owen being what he prefers to go by. Like Chuck Norris (his real name is Carlos, Chuck is a nickname he got in the Air Force) or my grandfather, who goes by his middle name. SpartHawg948 18:49, September 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yes it could be Armando Owen Bailey, or Owen is just a nickname. Lancer1289 18:50, September 7, 2010 (UTC) :::::I can see Carlos becoming Chuck, but Armando becoming Owen? *shrug* Anyway, we've gotta play the cards we've been dealt. So is it 'Captain Armando Bailey, also known as Owen Bailey, 'Captain Owen Bailey, also known as Armando Bailey', Captain Armando/Owen Bailey, or Captain Bailey with his names mentioned somewhere else?JakePT 18:54, September 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I think that the best bet for now may be to simply refer to him as 'Captain Bailey' at the top, then put a note in the article (likely in the trivia section) about the name discrepancy. SpartHawg948 01:34, September 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::::I removed the first name I originally put in, since he has two names referenced in-game now. Works as trivia, I think. I have to say that I think "Owen" works better than "Armando." though.Dr. Abysmal 21:21, September 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I agree. Owen Bailey makes sense. I can see him as an Owen. Armando? Not so much. I rationalize it by remembering that the same VI that calls him Armando also calls Shepard 'Shadow Broker'. Stupid machine! :P SpartHawg948 23:13, September 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::I'm with you totally, sir :) Capt. Bailey does not look like an Armando :D — Pepoluan 11:00, October 7, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::::Though I also think Owen is a better fit, I can see the reasoning behind Armando. I'm guessing that the writers figured that "Armando Bailey" reflected the multicultural heritage that most humans have in ME, like Hendel Mitra (Norwegian first name, Indian surname).--Darth Something 14:46, December 16, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::::Or David Anderson? Or John (Jane) Shepard? Or John Grissom? Or Ashley Williams? Or Kaidan Alenko? Or Steven Hackett? Or Tadius Ahern? Or... well, I think you see where I'm going here. call me a contrarian, but while humanity may be more multicultural in the future, names sure don't tend to be. Even if his name is Armando, I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to just being "well, it fit better with the multicultural theme". After all, such things aren't uncommon today, nor were they uncommon nearly a century ago. Take, for example, my personal favorite, Chuck Norris. Or, should I say, Carlos Norris? (Yes, you can look it up, his name is Carlos) 1/2 Irish and 1/2 Cherokee, and his name is Carlos. Armando Bailey could easily be the same thing... SpartHawg948 16:07, December 16, 2010 (UTC) Does telling Bailey to make you alive or keep ya dead make any difference? Mookeylama :Is there a question here because I can't see it. Lancer1289 13:33, December 8, 2010 (UTC) ::I imagine the question is contained in the section headline. Where the question is. ::To answer: Apart from some slightly different dialogue in some areas, there's no major difference between choosing to 'stay dead' or to have Bailey 'fill out the paperwork' to be made alive again. That's just in ME2 though. Perhaps in ME3 some larger consequences will happen... -- Dammej (talk) 18:54, December 8, 2010 (UTC) :::Does it score you any morality points? If so, then that's a reason to pick one or the other. GiantEnemyCrab 00:25, December 9, 2010 (UTC) ::::If memory serves, there's no morality reward either way. A quick search for "Bailey" in the Morality Guide didn't turn up anything related to that conversation either, so that somewhat backs up my (admittedly faulty) memory. Guess you'll have to just roleplay the choice! Shocking, I know. :P -- Dammej (talk) 00:46, December 9, 2010 (UTC) :::::You don't get any morality points either way. It's just one of those conversation options where you get to pick a responce of your personal taste. I just checked as I had a save just arriving on the Citadel for the first time. So maybe it will have an impact in ME3, maybe not, but there are no morality points either way. Lancer1289 00:49, December 9, 2010 (UTC) Move Per the template. Thoughts? -- Commdor (Talk) 21:13, December 15, 2010 (UTC) :Tentatively support. The rank change is an issue, and I'd really like to handle it the way we do for other characters whose rank changes (David Anderson, Donnel Udina, Ashley Williams, Kaidan Alenko), but then we get into the "Armando or Owen: which name is more canon?" issue... As such, and as stated above, I tentatively support this move. I've got a few reservations, but this seems to be the best of a bad situation. SpartHawg948 21:17, December 15, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm going to have to say no beause of the whole spoiler issue. I would also like to handle it better, but I have to say the best of a bad situation is to just leave it be until we get the whole canon name thing worked out. ::As to the canon name issue, I have to say contect BioWare to see which it is. Lancer1289 21:25, December 15, 2010 (UTC) :::If Bioware can't resolve this, my opinion is that the Shadow Broker would more likely have the birth name in his dossier on Bailey, compared to a news reporter who might be inclined to use a nickname. Would there be a problem with creating enough re-directs to handle the variations on his name? Captain, Commodore, and Owen pointing to an Armando article? I'm unfamiliar with the best practices for using re-directs. FarmerBob12 21:36, December 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::Near as I can tell, Bailey has never been a flag officer in a navy, so I can't see why we need Commodore in there. Perhaps you mean Commander? As for picking one ourselves, we can't do that, nor can we really say "Well, the Shadow Broker is more likely to get the correct name than a reporter". After all, we do know that the Shadow Broker is not all-knowing, and we have seen him make some pretty big mistakes. Creating redirects is one thing, but it doesn't really factor into this discussion, which is about what we should call the actual article itself. ::::Now, as to contacting BioWare, remember that any "confirmation" would actually need to be verifiable, meaning it'd need to be on the official forums clearly labeled as coming from someone at BioWare, or be from a BioWare IP or Christina Norman's account here if it were to appear on the wiki. Emails and "well so-and-so told me this" doesn't cut it. Thus far it's 2-1 in favor of moving, but we've still got a week on this one... SpartHawg948 22:20, December 15, 2010 (UTC) :::::Right, sorry. I meant Commander. As for the re-direct question, I mentioned that because ranks are usually a temporary thing (except in the case of Commander Shepard), whereas a birth name is more reliable. However, ranks still have value, because that's often how players refer to certain characters. FarmerBob12 22:33, December 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Rank is usually a temporary thing, you are correct. Emphasis on usually, as the vast majority of characters who have ranks in ME, don't have them change. At least, not in the materials we have. We've seen maybe 6 characters whose ranks have changed out of literally hundreds. SpartHawg948 01:40, December 16, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Support.JakePT 01:47, December 16, 2010 (UTC) The proposal passes 3-1. Implementing move. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:21, December 23, 2010 (UTC) Armando-Owen BioWare may be messing with us. December 31, 2010's Cerberus Daily News report calls him "Captain Armando-Owen Bailey", with the hyphen. Bailey appears to have two first names (or does the hyphen mean it's still one?). So should we treat this latest case as definitive or hold off from incorporating it into the article aside from the trivia blurb? -- Commdor (Talk) 00:39, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :Now I am beyond a doubt that at least someone from BioWare reads the wiki every day to see what discussions about inconsistencies pop up. Frankly I believe that it is Armando-Owen as I have seen hyphens in names before. It is called a double-barrelled name and while it is much more common in last names, it is not unheard of in first and/or middle names. I believe that it might be Armando Owen Bailey, but it seems that BioWare has set the record straight with Armando-Owen. Owen might be a middle name as it is not unheard of to use middle names, such as Rodney McKay from Stargate Atlantis using his middle name, Rodney, instead of his first, Meredith. With this, I believe that the article should be moved to Armando-Owen Bailey since the record has been set straight, and perhaps we could turn this into a move discussion. Lancer1289 00:51, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::It's a mouthful for sure. Anyway, I can start the move discussion now if you want. We'd move it to "Armando-Owen Bailey", right? -- Commdor (Talk) 00:55, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::Yes that would be accurate. This is from the CDN story and it would eliminate the whole discussion above about the rank in his name. Lancer1289 01:00, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::Extremely amused at this move, great to see that someone at Bioware has a sense of humour and reads the wiki fairly closely. At least it's cleared up that particular inconsistency. Armando-Owen Bailey sounds nice :) Bronzey 05:45, December 31, 2010 (UTC) Move II Per new info in December 31, 2010's Cerberus Daily News report, Bailey's name is "Armando-Owen". The proposed move will thus update the article's title to "Armando-Owen Bailey". -- Commdor (Talk) 01:07, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :Support. Just to say this again, I am now beyond a doubt that someone from BioWare reads this and sees inconsistencies and then they attempt to correct or clarify obscure topics. We have had instances in the past where this has happened. Lancer1289 01:09, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::Very cool. Glad they've cleared up that ambiguity. Support the move. -- Dammej (talk) 02:24, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::I support, though I wonder why in CDN they called him "Captain" not "Commander" as he was promoted after the events of Mass Effect: Inquisition. Maybe these events occurred before Inquisition? Funny how BioWare correcting an inconsistency with his name ends up creating another one with his rank. PARAGADE74 02:32, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::Well CDN takes place in 2185, and Retribution and Inquisition, where he got promoted, take place in 2186, and Inquisition after Retribution, and probably around a half of a year, up to a year after CDN reports. Although condiering the next year's reports will probably take place in 2186. Lancer1289 02:36, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::Hopefully the events of those stories will be reflected in the upcoming year at some point in CDN to make it consistent. PARAGADE74 02:40, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Maybe, and maybe not. Lancer1289 03:12, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Support. Nice to see someone official from Bioware has now attempted to address the problem. Phylarion 11:43, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Support. I guess Bioware is using Star Wars naming conventions, as per Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon. H-Man Havoc 16:43, December 31, 2010 (UTC) The move proposal passes 6-0. Implementing. -- Commdor (Talk) 02:54, January 7, 2011 (UTC) Bribes In thanes personal quest its told he takes bribes. who off? Ser Shepard 17:00, January 1, 2011 (UTC) :I'm assuming that meant who from, well it was from Elias Kelham and probably a few others as well. Although they weren't direct bribes, they left each other alone and in excahange Kelham bout tickets to the C-Sec charity ball. It is still bribe though. Lancer1289 18:03, January 1, 2011 (UTC) ME3 Endgame Is it safe to assume that Bailey, along with everyone else (except for the Illusive Man) on the Citadel, was killed when the Reapers captured the Citadel and moved it to the Sol system? The number of bodies in the keeper tunnel after Shepard uses the conduit could support this, as well as the Citadel's destruction in many of the game's possible endings. LoveWaffle 02:45, March 30, 2012 (UTC) :No. Lancer1289 02:56, March 30, 2012 (UTC) Honestly, no corpse means no confirmation. We need to see him die, or at least hear from a reliable source. --The Milkman | I always . 03:00, March 30, 2012 (UTC) Trivia dispute I'm not sure what the right place is to dispute an edit, so please let me know if this should be somewhere else. Lancer1289 undid a recent edit of mine to the trivia item on Bailey's first name. The item stated the different first names he was given in Mass Effect 2, and I added a reference to his first name in Mass Effect 3, where it was stated to be Armando-Owen (on the terminal with his personal log in Priority: The Citadel II). Lancer's edit says it's not trivia and doesn't make sense. I only added clarification to existing trivia, so I don't see how it is less qualified; I thought someone reading about the name conflict in Mass Effect 2 might want to know that Mass Effect 3 cleared it up (or ran with the mistake, as the case may be). I'm also not sure what doesn't make sense about it; was it not worded clearly? Lancer, can you please clarify the problem you had with it? :Because it made zero sense because his name was Armando-Owen, which BioWare clarified via CDN in December of 2010. Therefore the trivia made little sense, since he is listing his full name on a pad. Therefore it isn't clarification, since it clarifies nothing, and it isn't trivia because it is completely irrelevant. Lancer1289 (talk) 20:24, July 12, 2012 (UTC) ::Oops, didn't see there was a discussion. Revert me if necessary, Lancer. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:26, July 12, 2012 (UTC) :::Okay, I get that the CDN post was the first source; having that there instead would have been fine, but I just thought it should be noted in some way that the name was officially confirmed. I still don't see how the whole thing is irrelevant if the other name stuff isn't. Either way, not a huge deal, and I think Commdor's edit does a great job. Thanks for clearing this up. 21:41, July 12, 2012 (UTC) Possible Inspiration? I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I can draw a few connections between a character in Isaac Asimov's robot series Elijah Baley since the name and the connection to New York City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Baley --Denali134 (talk) 18:20, August 11, 2012 (UTC) :It is subjective to say the least with only a few passing comparisons and a name. Not even enough for trivia. More is needed. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:26, August 11, 2012 (UTC)